Real Estate

Seawall and Thibault Manekin in Baltimore are becoming synonymous with doing real estate development differently. In recent years, they've launched community driven food and beverage concepts, after many years of creating affordable housing for teachers and collaborative office space for nonprofits. Along the way, they haven't shied away from engaging in complicated conversations about how to ensure that the communities they work in are the ones driving the change that they want to see.

Despite coming from a well-known mid-Atlantic real estate family, Thibault, along with his father Donald Manekin, started 

 in 2007 with no first-hand development experience - with the vision that land and buildings should bring people together, not divide them (as they often do). Since then, Seawall has delivered projects totaling more than $250,000,000 in Baltimore and beyond - including R. House, the transformed Lexington Market, residential projects like Remington Row and Miller’s Court, and public charter schools like Green Street Academy and Baltimore Design School. Their impact is felt deeply in the communities where they work (and 

Alongside all of that, Thibault is known for leading from the heart; Baltimore Magazine 

 “the eternal optimist,” and he published a book in 2021 called 

 Cohere Partner Chris Richards sat down at Seawall’s Remington office in December 2023 to chat about it all.

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We’re sitting here in Seawall’s office in Remington in central Baltimore City, right on Howard Street, across from what I believe was Seawall’s first project at Miller’s Court. Think of Seawall as a whole. Describe yourself and the company, the mission behind it. What do you think you're trying to solve in the real estate industry? Why was Seawall created?

Without going too far back, I've spent my entire life trying to understand why we're so divided as human beings. And what are the creative ways that we can bridge those divides. Those questions led me around the world to work in some of the most divided places on earth [with 

]. I really came to understand the importance of showing up humbly without pretending to have the answers to anything - always having more questions than answers.

I ended up back in Baltimore unexpectedly in 2006 on the corner of Pennsylvania and North Avenue. A part of town that I'd been made to believe my entire life that I wasn't welcome in and wouldn't be safe in. Right or wrong, that's the narrative that was shared with me about that part of West Baltimore. And I had learned from my experiences living abroad that when we listen to the narrative that everyone else shares, we're limiting our ability to find the answers to the questions that are the deepest in our hearts. It's only on the other side of our comfort zones that those answers can even begin to be found.

And so I began to walk around the community that day and 

 One is that America, and particularly Baltimore, is more divided than these so-called "war-torn countries" where I’d just spent so much time and energy. And two, the real estate industry, the control and ownership of land, is the most powerful connected industry on the planet. It touches every single one of us, every single moment, of every single day. And most of the time we're not aware of it. Yet, with that power and connectivity, real estate's done more to divide us and keep us apart historically than it has to bring us together

I also hold this belief that every generation, and certainly the younger generations, have this responsibility to re-imagine industries, to take things the way the world's known to be one way, and completely flip them upside down, where we can be more in service of our purpose than anything else. And so I got with my Dad [Donald Manekin], and we began to ask ourselves some key questions. Those questions were around how can we start a company that really re-imagines the real estate industry, so that buildings are used to empower communities, unite cities, and help to launch really powerful ideas?

CR: How has that original mission grown or evolved since you started?

I've always wanted to make sure that the work that I did was in alignment with my purpose in life

, which is to find the answer to that question [about why we’re all so divided]. And I found a way to do that with a sports organization around the world. And then, to try to find a way to do that with the real estate industry was even more exciting. Because as I think about broken industries, industries that have been driven by profit at all costs, this one out of almost any of them felt the most right for reimagining. And I also want to say, we are standing on the shoulders of giants who have done this work way before we even thought about doing it; I'm thinking of the late Jim Rouse here in Baltimore, Bill Struever, many others. We’re far from pioneering anything here. But speaking for all of us, I do think we feel really good about the reason that we're showing up to this work. 

CR: It’s not a unique thought, but harder to put into practice - shaping your career around something that you can be passionate about.

TM: These are clearly questions that I think about a lot. And I think we've attracted this incredible group that deeply connects to our core questions - and has added questions of their own along the way.

One of the things that's been really important to us is 

we actually rarely hire anybody with real estate experience

. You know, when you're setting out to re-imagine something, you don’t want people with 10, 20 years of real estate experience; they'd come in with a preconceived notion of what real estate was and is meant to be.

So, when you hire incredible writers, journalists, former teachers, social workers, event planners, it becomes kind of a blank canvas, right? 

We bring our lived experiences to this idea of approaching real estate in a different way. And I think that's been a huge part of the culture that's been created here, to bring people in with really fresh perspectives who weren't grounded in what real estate's always meant.

 reporting (that Cohere helped build). Not a lot of developers are doing this. What are you measuring and why take this step?

TM: My experience for the first 10 years of my professional career was in the nonprofit sector. And in the nonprofit sector, on a daily basis, you were out there raising large sums of money to deliver very specific impact-driven work that in some way is going to change the way the world turns for the better, right? And that's a lofty f*cking statement. And a hard question to ask if you don't deeply believe in it; your credibility will only get you so far. To be able to back that work up with impact-driven data makes the ask the next time, and the next time, so much easier.

So, to a certain extent, it's been a part of our DNA to think about impact. We always knew that it was going to be really important to be able to show those results and not just tell them. We've been doing this work for over 15 years now, and it's been very anecdotal up until this point. We all work very closely on these projects and in this neighborhood, and any of us can stand up and talk about the impact we’ve had on teachers, nonprofits, and diverse small businesses.

But now what we’re doing is translating that into more statistical data that helps tell the story in a clearer way. 

We never speak in dollars. We speak in impact.

 We tell the stories that people tell us, of how the buildings that they live and work in have changed their lives, have changed the way they show up to the kids in their classrooms, changed their ability to create generational wealth for their families, and so on.

Now, we're just adding a layer to that, which is diving more into the statistical side of it to back up the anecdotal side.

CR: Yes - I feel like that approach has been infused across your projects from the start, definitely since I started interacting with them. They all stand out as more than real estate investments.

TM: That's a good call out. When you read our pitch decks or if you were sitting in any of the presentations that we give to investors, it always starts with the purpose behind the project. 

It's always the story of the problem that we're trying to solve for.

We want to surround ourselves with like-minded people and investors who are first and foremost focused on the health of the communities and cities that we live and work in.

 For us, that's specifically Baltimore. And it has been really helpful to have been able to align ourselves with people who think with 

 But I do want to really call out the importance of ensuring that the work that we do is profitable, you know? We are a for-profit entity - not a nonprofit. 

When young developers come in and ask us how we do it, I share that we are certainly very purpose-driven. But it is a beautiful reminder every step of the way that if the work that you do doesn't make economic sense, doesn't pencil out, then you won't be doing the work anymore. And then you lose the tool that allows you to be in service of your purpose, right?

So in the beginning, for me, that was basketball. It was one thing to go around saying that basketball can bridge divides and ask for a bunch of money to help us do that. But if we weren't the greatest basketball program in every country that we showed up to, then we would lose participants, we would lose coaches, and the program would fold. Then we’d lose that tool to bridge divides.

Same thing with real estate. If we're not building the greatest buildings around, an incredibly attractive space, an inspiring space, then it's not going to lease. And we're going to lose the ability to serve our purpose.

 So it's that beautiful balance of how you ensure that the purpose drives the work that you do, with the profit supporting it.

CR: Right - we hear a lot of pitches and plans from developers too. And I know for me, it’s a big flag if only “purpose” or only “profit” is driving the why. It’s a balance. How do you think about that?

Love is a word that isn't used enough today - especially in real estate. 

We always say that designing, financing, and building these projects is the easy part. Ensuring that the buildings have soul, and maintaining their soul, and ensuring that the buildings are filled with love are the differentiators.

To us, it's no surprise that R. House has become this Baltimore institution. In our minds, at no point in time was it ever just a food hall. It was a place to create community. In the beginning, it was a place to help small businesses launch important ideas. And that’s the reason why there's a waiting list of vendors to get in, and that there are no empty stalls, and that we're doing more volume than we did before the COVID pandemic - because we've maintained our soul. And, because every decision that gets made there is from a place of love, and I think that's what attracts people and vendors into the space.

It's the same way that we manage all of these buildings, whether it's for teachers, or nonprofits, or the workforce, or small businesses. 

The soul and love - that I think, is the biggest differentiator that we have to offer.

CR: I want to ask about the term "gentrification", the elephant in the room when it comes to real estate. It’s often framed as improving an area for some and not for others, or changing the character of an area in a way that leaves some behind. How does Seawall think about gentrification?

And I am not a fan of the actual word gentrification, especially in a city like Baltimore, where there's tens of thousands of vacant abandoned properties.

We have a responsibility as people who love this city to deeply invest in every corner of Baltimore, to wake up hoping that we can drive through streets where there isn't a single vacant boarded up property, let alone blocks and blocks of them. Anything short of that is a disservice.

Of the incredible young real estate developers that come meet with us, every single one of them wants to deliver what has happened in Remington to their community. They want their version of R. House, for better or for worse. Nobody wants vacant homes in their communities. Everybody wants access to jobs. Everybody wants significant investment in bringing companies and local small businesses to their neighborhoods.

And at face value, that is gentrification. But when you hear it from people all over Baltimore and they're all wanting the same thing, that word gets complicated. So, the word that we're focused on is "displacement.” 

How can we ensure that we deliver all of those things that communities are asking for - jobs, housing, community amenities - without displacing the legacy residents that have counted on that neighborhood to be their home, shelter, and place of peace for generations? That's the dance.

 And so we will quickly change the subject from gentrification, because I think it makes people feel guilty about significant investment in making things nice, and instead pivot to ask, "How can we help bring great things and limit displacement?"

 recently. How was that and what’s been its impact so far?

TM: It was a really powerful day, as all of our focused trainings around this 

DIRE [diversity, inclusion, anti-racism, and equity]

 work that we do. In the first part of that day when we were just diving into the history, how it’s tied to all systemic racism, was just anger and rage.

The second half of the day was back here at the office where we kind of workshopped around the learning to translate that into the work that we are doing. As the afternoon unfolded, the feeling and realization I had was one of gratitude, and realizing how far we’ve come. In the past few years especially, we've been really intentional around undoing broken processes, challenging the status quo, never being comfortable in our bubbles.

CR: Can you talk more about that process? What prompted that internal work?

TM: Yeah, so, my dad and I started Seawall - with nothing but the best intentions, you know? We grew organically; projects came to us mostly through our networks and our involvement in this community of Remington. But a time came in the past few years, really around the start of 

"Look around at the people who are making the decisions; it's a bunch of mostly white men."

 And externally people were saying the same exact thing, "How serious are you really about this work?"

We had always thought that the work would speak for itself, but began to realize this incredible miss from the very beginning. And that really started this DIRE work and process. As a result of a lot of different things, it's led to a more internally diverse team. It's led to the organization becoming even flatter than it had been in the past. There really aren't closed-door meetings anymore. Everybody is invited to all meetings, and I think everybody has a say. Everybody at Seawall has ownership in all of the projects that we build. Every project that we do now, we bring on a minority development partner. Hopefully a very small group with one or two employees that will learn as much from us as we'll learn from them. And at the end of a pretty significant project, they’ll be able to develop without the need of assistance from somebody like us.

All of that, I think, really allowed me to sit in that moment [at the redlining workshop] and have what seemed like an out-of-body experience and just 

appreciate how much people believed in us, to appreciate how much confidence they had to challenge us, and let us begin the process of changing course a bit.

You’ve been called “the eternal optimist” 

- how do you respond to that; is it always sunny? Does that influence how you identify or address challenges realistically and openly?

TM: Look Chris, it's come with some work, but I am a huge believer that the universe protects us all. 

I'd say that the biggest misses, losses, and disappointments that I've had in business have been incredible blessings.

 And while they sting in the moment, years later, the gratitude for the lesson that was learned was way stronger than the immediate gratification of what it was that I would have been chasing in the moment.

I don't know if I prescribe fully to the eternal optimist title, but I am able to operate from this place of deeply trusting the universe, the process, and really an ability to surrender. And I think that allows for a fairly free-flowing day with limited aggression, anger, and any of the other things that would normally come as a result of 99 nos and one yes. The amount of things that we're working on a daily basis, most of them don't go our way initially, you know? 

And I think when we can approach it from the place of patience, trusting the process, and love, it makes for a smoother road.

Cohere is a Baltimore creative agency working with founders, entrepreneurs, and makers on real estate, culinary, and community ventures. This encompasses real estate marketing, naming, leasing strategy, branding, and signage - across multifamily and commercial projects.

A Baltimore Developer Having the Hard Conversations about Real Estate, Gentrification, and Leading with Heart

Unfiltered with Thibault Manekin of Seawall

That’s the notion we started with when kicking-off our branding and strategy work with the dynamic Shipon brothers in Philadelphia’s northern neighborhood of Germantown. Outside of their usual South Philly stomping grounds, we asked the brothers what it was that makes this development special.

Matt and Seth Shipon are two of the most jovial and engaging real estate developers we’ve ever met. And maybe that’s because they don’t tout themselves as typical developers – They’re not a national-scale REIT with hundreds of properties and products crafted with formulaic approaches to programming and metrics.

Instead, they’ve built an entrepreneurial approach to bringing together retail, food, community, and real estate development entirely rooted in the legacy of their family’s local pride and impact on Philadelphia over the past 100 years. It's all culminating in their latest development, 

Braid Mill Commercial Real Estate Branding

To put it briefly: They take their work personally.

And this property is special to them because it’s an extension of their entrepreneurial business, 

 – a new headquarters for themselves and their real estate business – and starting the development of their first larger-scale office and commercial space, against the backdrop of a global pandemic, things got personal.

 craft a brand and a narrative to help the brothers position and lease a space during a time when the future of work was so uncertain.

That meant looking at timeless design trends, historic narratives of the space, and creative positioning for a raw building that had so much potential. In the historic foundation of Braid Mill, they saw the potential from the start, so we had to meet them with an equally strong brand vision.

 from Design Rush about Real Estate Digital Marketing where Cohere partner Chris Richards highlights the importance of building a compelling brand narrative. 

With the blurring of the lines between work and home, Braid Mill is reimagining the work environment with all the benefits of the home. Thoughtfully redeveloped, the historic textile factory in East Germantown has 35,000 sq ft of creative office and light industrial space available for lease.

We approached the creation of the brand with this common goal - to reimagine the workplace. It resonated throughout the brand, and drove the brothers' entire approach to development of the building.

Known originally as the Excelsior Textile Factory, 441 High Street in Germantown has everything you could ask for in a physical shell. Outfit with expansive windows, ceilings, multiple loading bays, and beautiful columns, the historic textile factory filled the building more than 150 years ago, creating lasting roots for production in the city.

Today, the brothers have adapted it for the future maker

 – a gathering place for designers, creators, and producers. The versatile space opens its doors to the entrepreneurs exploring design, media, food, and health – empowered by the layout, open spaces, and opportunity to craft their own future.

But it was the history of fabrics, fibers, connectivity, and threads that kept inspiring us visually as we crafted the brand identity. Drawing from the natural flow of threads and spools, our creative team was able to construct a logo that is both literally symbolic of a thread, while also subtly representative of the “B” and “M” in Braid Mill. An icon and wordmark pair together to form the primary identity, with plenty of flexibility in between on bringing them to life visually. The design resonated, resulting in an 

 system and thoroughly imagined physical space.

The Braid Mill is seeking artisans and people pivoting to bring back manufacturing and work that is identifiable and different. Creatives specializing in wood, metal, and textile work that echoes the past history of this factory. Offices that merge seamlessly with the comforts of home, and expansive common and outdoor areas help to realize that vision.

If you’re interested in leasing creative office space at the 

Contact

Matt and Seth Shipon are two of the most jovial and engaging real estate developers we’ve met. And maybe that’s because they don’t tout themselves as typical developers.

Brotherly Love and Commercial Property Branding Awards

TBranding is about helping someone unlock their full potential.

Through our work as Cohere, we’ve developed the skill to pull off a person’s armor, learn about their stories and tap into their superpowers. We’ve launched “Unfiltered”, a series of conversations where we dig into the real stories happening behind-the-scenes, that you might otherwise only hear on a bar stool - interviews from people who are changing the landscape of our history books and shaping our cities in unique ways.

In our first interview, we’re speaking with David Waxman, Co-Founder/Managing Partner of 

, a real estate company that has been ahead of the curve with the transformation of Philadelphia neighborhoods such as Brewerytown. He runs his business with an entrepreneurial spirit, having invested in over $300MM worth of assets, many of them being historic and adaptive reuse.

Having known David for over 10 years, it’s clear he’s been a long-standing member of the development community in Philly. He does it with care, taking pride in investing in emerging neighborhoods and restoring historical landmarks. That’s a reputation worth getting to know.

With the trend of re-urbanization, most cities are seeing record demand for housing in both the central business districts and surrounding neighborhoods. We all know the demographic influences – millennials who want to stay after college and empty nesters moving downtown. This has an obvious impact on multi-family development and new construction. Cohere’s mission is to help cities become better versions of themselves through the power of branding, and if we’re being honest – we think that it’s more important than ever to redevelop existing infrastructure to help maintain the original charm of neighborhoods.

Putting it simply, adaptive reuse requires more creative thinking than new construction. David Waxman is an expert in repurposing older buildings and we want to dive into them. His legacy is something Philly should be very proud of and we want to help more developers learn from his experiences.

Thanks for taking the time to answer some of these questions. We know you are one busy man but you've always been very responsive. How do you make time for everything you do?

With my executive leadership coach, I worked to understand my strengths, weaknesses and what makes me tick. I discovered I thrive on being creative, problem-solving, thinking strategically and coming up with a plan to get from A to Z. One of the many areas where I am weak is getting stuck in the weeds. It just saps the life out of me. Knowing this, I have deliberately aligned myself with great partners and employees who are very capable in areas where I lack strength, so I can focus more on where I can add the most value.

Too many people try and force themselves to be good at things that they aren’t good at and/or they don’t enjoy. I used to have the mindset that I had to work to improve on all the things I sucked at, but now I’m only interested in doing the very few things I’m very good at and letting the people I trust to handle the rest.

In terms of the nuts and bolts of how I actually manage my time, I’ve created a system and stick to it like clockwork. Every year over the holidays I take a two-week family trip. On this trip, I spend a lot of time looking back at the previous year and analyzing the goals I had set. At a high level, I look at what worked and what didn’t work. I map out where I want to go in the next year in macro goals and import the data into a spreadsheet to track everything in one place. Then each week and day I’m using this spreadsheet to plan out my days/weeks/year to hit my goals.

The real key is doing this day in day out, week in week out, year after year. Consistency wins the race.

Those who know you would say that David Waxman’s personal brand is about style, timelessness, and long-lasting reliability. You take the long view and you are consistent. What influenced you to be the person you are today, both in business and personally?

Wow, I’m really flattered by this question/compliment. Business-wise, I’ve been very lucky to have worked for a number of developers before I went out on my own that I learned a great deal from. I also have a voracious appetite for reading and learning.

What I have observed, which certainly isn’t rocket science, is that in real estate if you develop/own good properties in a good location, over time you will be rewarded, especially if your projects stick out from the crowd so you’re not just replicating what’s out there.

The other key mantra is that anything worth doing takes hard work and patience.

The whole idea of getting rich quick is a myth. It takes perseverance and an ability to get kicked in the balls day in and day out, but keep getting back up and moving forward because at some point you will be rewarded.

Attending a Quaker school for K-12th grade taught me to look at things in a very contrarian manner, to question everything and look for creative solutions to big problems. This has served me well in business. I tend to go left when everyone else goes right. Going against the herd and not being afraid to think for yourself creates opportunities in life.

I’ve learned not to be afraid to take a calculated risk because often it’s not a risk at all.


You’ve been developing in north Philly near temple’s campus, Brewerytown and Francisville for over 18 years now. What initially got you started in that area of Philadelphia?

I was born and raised in Center City, and left for college in Boston in 1994. When I left, I was convinced I wouldn’t move back after college, having lived through a time when the city was kind of a shithole. Funny enough, I now miss those days of the really gritty Philly with no traffic, lots of parking spots, cheap real estate and few, if any, d-bags. I moved to Miami after college, then NYC. In the early 2000s when I was ready to start doing my own real estate deals, I knew NYC wasn’t a viable option. I decided to do projects in Philadelphia in an emerging neighborhood, which was what I studied in college and was the aspect of real estate development I found most intriguing.

Fact is, I could have gone to any neighborhood that was redeveloping in Philly at that point and done quite well, probably even better than I did in Brewerytown. However, I wouldn’t have had the same ability to drive change on the scale we did in Brewerytown (Graduate Hospital, Northern Liberties, etc.), which has created much larger opportunities for our company. I was intrigued by Brewerytown for a number of reasons:

: Brewerytown is centrally located with great access to highways and public transportation
Retail Corridor: The 4-block condensed and intact retail corridor along W. Girard Avenue
In The Path of Development: Development was bound to move to Brewerytown from Fairmount


: In the early 2000s, prices for land/shells in Brewerytown were very attractive relative to other emerging neighborhoods. I had a finite amount of capital saved up to invest, and in Brewerytown, I was able to parlay those funds into 9 shells on the 2900 block of W. Girard.


: I saw the opportunity in Brewerytown to acquire a good deal of property to allow us to really effectuate positive change. This was my first project and served as the template for an organic block-by-block approach to redeveloping Brewerytown.


: I was just a visitor, the neighborhood belonged to the people who lived there for decades before I came along, and will still be here long after I am gone.

Brewerytown, like many urban neighborhoods in Philly & other major cities, had suffered from decades of disinvestment due to government policies & other bullshit. There was a real need for capital to get to the neighborhood to develop the area in a responsible manner. I felt I could do that.

. How’s it going now? What surprised you most about this project?

So far it’s going great! We are happy with the response to the building and how we have positioned it with your help. Most surprising is the amount of people who have noticed what we have done and love it. It’s easy when you’re in the bubble to think something will work, especially something truly unique like you created for this project, but hearing the feedback it’s clear we nailed it.

New construction is so much cheaper than redeveloping an existing property. Why do you personally choose adaptive reuse over new construction? What does it mean to you to help redevelop landmark buildings in the city you grew up in?

I have built a fair amount of new construction and we still do it where it makes sense, but you are correct, I much prefer adaptive reuse. It does cost more but the end product is way better than new construction, not just aesthetically but also from a quality perspective. These old buildings were usually over-designed so you often have floors that are one to two feet thick, high ceilings and big window openings. Unless you are building to the high end of the market, you can’t replicate this in new construction.

These old buildings also have great stories that can assist in marketing and telling a story. At the end of the day, people prefer an interesting adaptive reuse apartment vs. a generic “spaceship” new building.

You have unique floor plans, not every unit is the same, and you can create a great mix of rough original materials (steel columns, exposed brick, graffiti) with new softer materials to create a cool high/low vibe. From a dollars-and-cents perspective, the ability to utilize historic tax credits allows us to de-risk these transactions and compensate for the increased costs. Historic tax credits are an amazing financial tool if you understand how to effectuate a deal using them. It’s not easy, it’s frankly kind of brutal.


It can be tough to get out of your bubble at times but you seem to be a guy who is creatively inspired. What projects, visionaries or brands are you excited by these days?

I read tons of different magazines across all sorts of genres. Right now I’m really into Gary Vaynerchuk for his marketing perspective, I listen to his podcast every morning on my commute. We are big fans of social media marketing and he’s our guru. I like to travel to other cities and see what’s happening there to get ideas. There are few truly original ideas out there. Interestingly, I really like a lot of the new high-rise construction down in Miami. The branding, amenities, and finishes are really at the forefront of what is happening in real estate worldwide and I tend to get little ideas here and there.

We are concerned about the dystopia of the look of multi-family new construction. It seems like only a few styles of architecture catch on in cities that then become replicated and drown out the character of that town. What advice do you have for other new developers in Philly regarding authenticity?

The fucking “spaceship” buildings are just the worst.

 On one hand, it helps me because it allows our projects to stand out, but it kills the urban environment – especially when a good historic building is torn down to make way for these things. Philadelphia is a historic row home city where brick is the primary façade material. Brick is a great material, that’s why so many row homes are still standing.

I’m definitely not an advocate of building new to look old, that’s some Disneyland-type of shit, but I am a proponent of less is more. These new buildings and houses with 5 or 6 façade materials just kill me and it’s almost as if everyone is sharing the same plan, little originality. My advice is to keep it simple – straight lines, fewer materials and use more brick!

Be honest...what are the things that keep you up at night?


Aside from my two-year-old son, most nights I sleep really well. On the rare nights where I’m tossing and turning worrying about something, it usually is something really stupid and small that I frankly shouldn’t be concerning myself with because someone on my team is handling it. As it relates to the fact I take calculated risks for a living that should keep me up at night, they just don’t. I am very comfortable taking risks because I don’t just jump into something without a lot of front end diligence. Barring a black swan event in the economy (which I can’t control), I know I will be ok.

I am acutely aware there will be road bumps along the way, so I’m prepared for that “oh shit” moment, but I know if you keep your head on straight, don’t lose your shit and think clearly – you can solve any problem.


Is there anything in your career you wish you could have done differently? What shortcuts can you help others who are less experienced learn from so they won’t have to go through learning lessons you endured?

I tend to not be someone who has regrets or dwells on the past. I think one thing I should have done differently, and this may sound crazy, is that I didn’t buy enough property in Brewerytown. I knew the neighborhood was gonna blow up and I should have owned way more property. Trust your gut.

Make a change when you see a problem right away, don’t put your head in the sand and hope something will change. Just step up and make a change–have difficult conversations.

My last piece of advice is to realize that everything typically costs more and takes longer to get done. Assume the worst in your analysis and be pleasantly surprised when things turn out better.

Putting it simply, more often than not, adaptive reuse requires more creative thinking than new construction. David Waxman is an expert in repurposing older buildings, and we dive into them in this Unfiltered interview.

Unfiltered with David Waxman: Transforming Buildings into Vibrant Developments

After launching Cohere's Baltimore office in 2015, the 

 team jumped high onto the “must-know” list, as their projects and visual aesthetic were immediately recognizable and unforgettable. Getting to know them a bit more, it’s easy to see why.

Tell us about both of your backgrounds, how you met, and how you ultimately became business partners to create PI.KL


Pavlina and I met in college. We were both attending Texas Tech University, College of Architecture. I (Kuo Pao) came from a family of Texas Tech alum so it was inevitable that I would find myself there. Pavlina landed from Bulgaria on a scholarship to study at Tech. We were first introduced to each other by one of our professors that we both admired. I think from there, I sort of stalked her in the computer lab days on end until I had the courage to finally ask her out on a date. The rest is history. I graduated a year ahead so after trying to search for a job in the economic recession of 2004, I finally accepted a position with RTKL in Baltimore. Pavlina would follow shortly after finishing her thesis and joined Hord Coplan Macht. We both worked at our respective firms till around 2007 when we got an opportunity to link up with former college friends in San Diego to work for Sebastian Mariscal Studio. Working 60-70 hour weeks, our 2 years there felt like 4 but we learned so much about the design, build and development part of the profession and how a small boutique design firm works.

For those who don’t know, PI.KL is actually both of your initials. Is it pronounced pickle or P-I-K-L?

Yes, “PI” stands for Pavlina Ilieva and “KL” is Kuo Pao Lian. You can pronounce it both ways. When we were selecting names, I think we went through the gamut of different possibilities but ultimately kept coming back to making it simple and not taking ourselves too seriously. Once we realized that our initials inadvertently pronounced pickle, we thought it was a bit playful so we just accepted it. Coming from Bulgaria, all things pickled are huge and I like pickled foods as well, so why not!

PI.KL is based out of Baltimore, were their specific factors that contributed to making the decision to set up base there? What is the best part about being in Baltimore for the firm now?

Basing the office in Baltimore basically originated with the relationships we had built while we worked here from 2004-2007. We not only worked at the architectural firms, but we both taught at the Maryland Institute College of Art, and we engaged in numerous extra-curricular projects and events that allowed us to build a great pool of connections that we kept strong while we were in San Diego. After we decided to move on from Sebastian’s studio, we initially thought of sticking around or going north to San Francisco or Seattle, but Baltimore just kept calling for us. We already had some potential clients that we were starting to talk to, Pavlina had been discussing a teaching position with Morgan State’s School of Architecture + Planning and MICA needed teachers as well, so we came back and dove right in.

Hard to pick just one thing that makes being in Baltimore great for the firm. But if I had to start with one of the important factors, it would be the amazing people here! We’ve been so lucky to have worked with clients, partners, consultants, community, and city agencies that are passionate, thoughtful, and who truly want to see this city become a contemporary metropolitan city. Despite all the setbacks, the development opportunities and entrepreneurial mentality are quite strong here so that keeps things constantly growing and evolving, it keeps work flowing into the office.


"The next generation of developers here are eager to make a mark in Baltimore and they want to break the norm of the cookie-cutter architecture and developments that we have seen here for so long. They are savvy and they too know what other contemporary metropolitan cities are doing, and we seek to align ourselves with those like-minded individuals with the common goal." - KP

And with this new age of local small and large businesses showing no fear in taking their passion and concepts to test, even for the first time in an atmosphere of this city that wants more and more, you have a perfect storm of people needing designers that can bring them to that place and think outside the box.


What values do you look for in partners for projects and how do you leverage these collaborations? What made you interested in collaborating with Cohere?

We look for partners who A) put design first B) take on every project uniquely and do not just replicate past models or standards C) believe in collaboration and communication as key factors in developing a project. We were interested in Cohere because they retained A, B, & C. (plus Chris Richards sought us out, and the rest was history. Pretty hard to say no to him!)


What is your approach when it comes to choosing projects? Does PI.KL have a set of core values you use to decide which projects are the right fit?

Similar to what we look for in partners, we look for projects and clients who want good design and are dedicated to bringing contemporary design to the forefront here in Baltimore and outside. We believe that good design = good business no matter what branch of the economy our clients operate in. Communication, collaboration, and trust are key. If they don’t trust us or if we are not able to establish a clear process with them, then it just makes everything harder.


What is your perspective on preserving the authenticity of the cities you work in? Is this something that you consider when starting to develop ideas for new projects?

We take this as a given. Cities have history and we should preserve certain relics and allow them to live on. But we must do this with the future in mind. Preservation for preservation’s sake needs to be carefully approached with the understanding that to become a contemporary metropolitan city, we must respect historic structures and spaces, but 

reimagine them to evolve with new uses and new architectural sensibilities.


What projects, visionaries, or brands are you excited by these days? I know you were in Europe for a bit recently.


We were just in Copenhagen and we can’t say enough about how much we loved not only the architecture but how the city embraced the bike as their main form of transportation and has dedicated so much towards that cause and also their commitment to inclusive housing. There is a clear goal to develop a city for the citizens and seek longevity and true sustainability towards cities of the future. A similar model and related systems are possible and can happen here in Baltimore. We just need to keep pushing the envelope and showing that we can do it too and it just takes trust and vision.


If you could go back to earlier in your career and give yourself advice, what would you say?

We have learned from experiences both good and bad, I don’t think I would change anything. Our path was and is our path, we accept what we went through and look forward to what is in store for us!

In this interview, we’re speaking with Kuo Pao Lian and Pavlina Ilieva Co-Founders of PI.KL Studio, a Baltimore based architectural design, build and development studio.

Unfiltered with PI.KL Co-Founders Kuo Pao Lian and Pavlina Ilieva

It began with a 14-unit residential project in Fell's Point, Baltimore.

, Jeremy has since expanded to the development and management of income producing properties throughout MD, DC, and VA. With a critical mass of properties and tenants in the neighborhoods of Hampden and Fell’s Point in Baltimore, he is a known presence in the communities in which the firm invests.

Jeremy’s latest redevelopment project of an old hardware store into 

 has quickly gained a reputation as one of Baltimore’s most forward-thinking concepts, offering high-end coffee and bites, worldly housewares, locally-crafted furniture, and a floral studio. And not surprisingly, what locals consider institutions such as Paulie Gee’s, The Bluebird Cocktail Room, The Food Market, The Charmery, and Johnny Rad’s all exist as partners or tenants in Jeremy’s properties.

"A lot of people just bring a lot of BS. Jeremy knows how to get shit done. That's his strength. Going through the hay and finding the needle." -

Reba Holdings – named after his steadfast companion 

 the german shepherd – combines Jeremy Landsman’s innate ability to sniff out the right acquisitions with the drive to create value. The firm is a vessel for positive action, ensuring each project it commits to generates value to the communities.

Jeremy and Cohere have partnered to communicate the next phase of Reba Holdings as it grows in Baltimore, DC and beyond, thinking strategically and connecting the dots between real estate, retail, food and beverage, and how those pieces collide in communities.

In this iteration of our Unfiltered Q&A series, Cohere Partner 

 sits down with Jeremy in Baltimore to get more personal about development, family, and his take on what makes real estate development so compelling.

Chris Richards named Partner at Cohere

Working with real estate isn't for everyone. What is it that got you thinking about real estate as a viable career in the first place?

There were family influences that prepared me for life in business as an entrepreneur and life experiences that really clearly presented Real Estate as a great option. My great grandfather worked in the alcohol business during prohibition times and moved into the furniture business. He purchased buildings for his furniture showroom and ended up acquiring a few others some of which were then passed down to my grandfather. He would tell me stories about my family history and involved me in the business at a young age. Later in life I began to understand how those buildings fortified the stability and happiness of the next generation.

As a kid I always had some hustle I was running with. One of the first jobs as a little kid was gum-ball machines around town. Later, in college, I started a hip-hop record label and streetwear brand called ‘Hustle Hard.’ We signed an act in Baltimore, and I was contemplating moving the business to NYC where there was more focus from industry executives. At the same time I was also thinking through what I wanted to do with my career after college — maybe music production, maybe selling cars — and met a kid in one of my classes who owned three rental houses. I bought all three houses and rented them out within a few months of meeting him. 

In that one deal, I learned as a college student that real estate gave me more opportunity to jump into the game than I would have in another business.

 The prospect of impacting a neighborhood, making money, and leveraging the little capital I had at the time was exciting. It still excites me.

What drives you to get on the phone, make calls, do deals, and work every day? What is that definition of success to you?


I’m not exactly sure what it is, but I just love it so much. I love the opportunities. 

When there’s the opportunity for a deal to happen I want to make the most of every opportunity and give it my all.

 It’s exciting placing tenants, making relationships. I love the people. Talking with people and getting to know them and what they want to do with their businesses is one of the best parts of what I do.

I think my definition of success is waking up every day and knowing my family and friends are happy and healthy. And honestly, feeling like my workday is a vacation. I’m lucky to not have to do anything I don’t enjoy doing. 

I love what I do, so it doesn’t feel like work.

What brings Jeremy Landsman the most joy? When you get home...phone is stashed away (maybe), what brings you joy?

 Being together with my son, wife, grandparents, aunts, uncles, mom, dad, friends, food, and tennis. During the COVID lock-down, we were lucky to get the extended family to coordinate a “group quarantine” in advance of a big family beach trip. Every day was perfect to be with them during these unprecedented times — especially being together with my grandparents and my son. I grew up with a really strong family, there was a lot of love from a big close-knit family to go around, so I enjoy sharing that with him.

"The guy works 24/7 — he’s got good intuition and he just talks to people, like people. He knocks on doors and makes things happen." -

I like to think that family has a lot to do with how people approach other people and their working relationships. What is it about your family ties or upbringing that has allowed you to flourish?

I grew up with really good communicators. Everyone talked a lot and was totally transparent. That helped me to absorb our family history and realize how important family and relationships are.

Both of my grandfathers taught me a lot. One was very by the book – kind of a “board room” guy, the other was more street smart, working in the food manufacturing business. I learned at a young age. I wanted to be an entrepreneur like them. My father had a recruiting business for some time and used to put me on the phones after school to keep me out of trouble. 

I was 11 years old trying to recruit new hires for my Dad.

Stories About Real Estate

Stories about
Real Estate

Unfiltered with Thibault Manekin of Seawall

Brotherly Love and Commercial Property Branding Awards

Unfiltered with David Waxman: Transforming Buildings into Vibrant Developments

Unfiltered with PI.KL Co-Founders Kuo Pao Lian and Pavlina Ilieva

Unfiltered with Jeremy Landsman: Being a Good Neighbor

Stories About Real Estate

Stories about Real EstateEverything

Unfiltered with Thibault Manekin of Seawall

Brotherly Love and Commercial Property Branding Awards

Unfiltered with David Waxman: Transforming Buildings into Vibrant Developments

Unfiltered with PI.KL Co-Founders Kuo Pao Lian and Pavlina Ilieva

Unfiltered with Jeremy Landsman: Being a Good Neighbor

Stories about
Real Estate